'Elite' Masters diet regimines

**Beards247** · August 17th, 2010, 04:38 PM

I remember reading articles about Dana Torres where she mentioned how her current training diet was more protein based and not the carb loading that was her earlier training days.

As someone who is contemplating a higher level of training, I'm wondering what is the ideal ratio of protein/carb/fat is (Of course ice cream should be the 4th food group)... Of course I could just buy her book, but I doubt that would answer my questions : ).

If anyone has personal/professional experience glad to hear it, but equally interested in recommended resources web or paper based.

Thanks!

CB

**qbrain** · August 17th, 2010, 04:53 PM

Since you asked for books on the topic that might be of interest, my first recommendation.

[ame="http://www.amazon.com/Racing-Weight-Lean-Peak-Performance/dp/1934030511"]Amazon.com: Racing Weight: How to Get Lean for Peak Performance (9781934030516): Matt Fitzgerald: Books[/ame]

When you eat is also (more?) important. Eating protein and carbs after workout improves recovery. Advertising claims there is an ideal ratio, research just shows that protein plus carbs after workout improves recovery over carbs alone and nothing. If you are going to train frequently, you should be concerned with decreasing recovery time.

**Lump** · August 17th, 2010, 11:54 PM

These days I typically eat a lot more protein as well. I usually don't eat before I swim in the morning but will have a water bottle of the carb based Gatorade on the deck during workout. Then I eat within 30 minutes of the workout. I try to eat 5-6 times a day....morning, mid-morning, lunch, mid-afternoon, dinner, healthy snack. Generally I won't eat after about 8:30pm. If I do its something like cottage cheese, protein shake (small) or the like. Naturally I have a slow motabolism so I really HAVE to eat more often and not as much.

When I got ready for Spring Nationals this past May I stopped drinking all soda, alcohol and avoided as much sugar as possible.

**swimshark** · August 18th, 2010, 09:02 AM

My team has a trainer that we can meet with and I do so before meets for stretching. She has given us diet recommendations. Off the top of my head I can't remember what the break down of protein/carbs/fats she recommends (and I'm on the couch after ankle surgery) but the biggest change I've made is drinking (or eating) a protein drink after each practice or other workout. It helps the muscles recover better. I have noticed I can do an intense workout and get in the next day for another intense one and not feel it as much as before.

When I get a chance, I'll look for her diet sheet and post more.

**Beards247** · August 18th, 2010, 11:06 AM

I suspect what will help me most is dropping pounds, but hopefully this info. will help guide the weight loss.

SwimShark - I'd love to see the recommendations!

These posts bring up another question: do most swimmers-in-training rely on supplements, natural food sources?

**Bobinator** · August 19th, 2010, 12:51 PM

Whole food always trumps supplements!
Eat pure, wholesome, fresh food for good results!

**makesense** · August 19th, 2010, 12:58 PM

Originally Posted by Bobinator

Whole food always trumps supplements!
Eat pure, wholesome, fresh food for good results!

how true this is

almost daily, there is a new story about either another recall regarding or FDA recommendation to not use supplements containing Viagra-like and sibutramine drugs

what the label says is rarely close to reality

**pwb** · August 19th, 2010, 04:14 PM

Like Bobinator says ...

Originally Posted by Bobinator

Whole food always trumps supplements!
Eat pure, wholesome, fresh food for good results!

... the only supplement I take is glucosamine for my knees, but, honestly, I'm not sure if that's really working.

To your original question on diet:

my wife (runner, half marathons) and I have really been focusing on whole foods over the last 6-9 months. We've always eaten pretty healthfully, but have really kicked it into overdrive lately, trying to eliminate processed foods whenever possible.
as far as protein/carb mix, lately I'm eating more carbs, but these tend to be better carbs (e.g., loads more veggies, a lot less rice/pasta/breads).
Like Q mentions, though, I'm almost always
- combining carbs with protein
- eating pretty frequently throughout the day (e.g., every 2 to 3 hours)
I'm also trying to follow the maxim of eating breakfast like a king and dinner like a pauper, so most of my calories are probably consumed by about 3pm.
I'm also eating somewhat consistently -- breakfast, lunch and snacks are taken from a small repertoire of meals I like. This makes it easier for me to make better choices. My wife cooks amazingly healthy dinners, so that's always under control.

So far, this is working well from a weight perspective. When I started back Masters a decade ago (early 30s), I was around 200/205 versus a leaving college weight of 185. Over the last 2 to 3 years of steadier training, I got back to about 190, but am now back at 185.

With that said, I'm going to probably add back in a little more protein emphasis now as I'm entering a phase of training where I'm going go try to put on some measure of muscle.

**bzaks1424** · August 20th, 2010, 03:03 PM

Originally Posted by pwb

as far as protein/carb mix, lately I'm eating more carbs, but these tend to be better carbs (e.g., loads more veggies, a lot less rice/pasta/breads).

According to my P90X nutritional guides - The higher carb diet is really only well suited for someone who is already extremely physically active and already in a very good physical condition (< 10% body fat)

That being said - The more I swim and lift - the more I pretty much consume food like a vacuum.

My perspective the past 7-8 months has been to eat a ton of veggies. a couple of fruits, tons of healthy proteins (whey, turkey, fish, chicken), a couple of dairy, and a couple of grains on any given day.
Then follow the usual standard guide: keep the refined carbs to a minimum, watch the trans-fats, don't eat your body weight in bacon (as glorious as that would be), don't use sweeteners, listen to your body - its constantly telling you what it needs, get enough sleep, don't eat your spouse's body weight in bacon... you know - the usual stuff.

Of course my diet has been one with a strong focus on muscle building, and weight reduction. Its not necessarily what's going to be best for you.

I think it was put best in the "Mastering Swimming" book when they said "What works for you will work for you and only you."

**Lui** · August 20th, 2010, 03:28 PM

Forget this low carb high protein stuff even if Dara Torres promotes it. All societies with healthy diets have one thing in common: a high consumption of fresh fruit and veggies. Make that your main food.
Chinese who eat a lot of rice stay lean because they eat a lot of veggies.

You can add protein(lean meat, poultry, fish, beans, lentils, dairy, eggs) to that, plus whole grains, nuts and seeds.

All societies with obesity problems have one thing in common: processed food. If you cut out sugar, processed food, soft drinks and junk food and stick to whole food you got a pretty solid diet.

Just my 2 cents....

**fmracing** · August 20th, 2010, 03:35 PM

Originally Posted by Lui

All societies with obesity problems have one thing in common: processed food.

And here I thought lazy society members like me are the common link. Sweet that I can blame it on the food

**isobel** · August 21st, 2010, 01:23 AM

my nutritionist told me 60% carbs, 40% protein; refuel after practice with carbs, which replace glycogen lost in muscles. have protein later, rather than sooner, after workouts. also eat (for me, weight 117 or so, 5' 4") around 300 calories a day of healthy fats (olive oil, etc.), which help fight depression as well as provide good energy.

i think we eat too much protein in our society; it produces a waste product that leeches calcium out of bones, according to andrew weil and some others i've seen quoted in laundromat magazines.

i am not elite masters swimmer, though. just masters swimmer, good enough!

**bzaks1424** · August 23rd, 2010, 01:23 AM

Originally Posted by isobel

my nutritionist told me 60% carbs, 40% protein; refuel after practice with carbs, which replace glycogen lost in muscles. have protein later, rather than sooner, after workouts. also eat (for me, weight 117 or so, 5' 4") around 300 calories a day of healthy fats (olive oil, etc.), which help fight depression as well as provide good energy.

i think we eat too much protein in our society; it produces a waste product that leeches calcium out of bones, according to andrew weil and some others i've seen quoted in laundromat magazines.

Um... I think given your weight and my guess your body comp is in pretty good condition that 60/40 like that is fantastic. You're probably pretty active. However - right after a work out - you do need a little protein. Carbs will only give the muscles fuel to act, but without a little protein (I believe the ratio is 3:1) they can't begin to rebuild themselves efficiently. 8oz of chocolate milk after a workout == amazing results just from personal experience.

**SwimSister** · August 23rd, 2010, 04:59 AM

Fruit and raw vegetables will make your body feel soooo great. You�ll recover like a baby if you stick to fruit only after training. Loads of fruit - 4-500 grams. More if you got space

I personnally don't get dairy. WHY do adults drink breast milk from another species? It's gross, it's disgusting - and it is not healthy. Cow milk is for calves, human milk for human babies. No adult needs milk. It's NOT good for you, cow milk makes your bones erode!

Milk preventing osteoporosis is one of the biggest lies ever - something that milk producers will do anything to hide from the consumers:
http://www.news-medical.net/news/2005/09/12/13120.aspx

**bzaks1424** · August 23rd, 2010, 10:49 AM

Originally Posted by SwimSister

I personnally don't get dairy. WHY do adults drink breast milk from another species? It's gross, it's disgusting - and it is not healthy. Cow milk is for calves, human milk for human babies. No adult needs milk. It's NOT good for you, cow milk makes your bones erode!

Milk preventing osteoporosis is one of the biggest lies ever - something that milk producers will do anything to hide from the consumers:
http://www.news-medical.net/news/2005/09/12/13120.aspx

While I do not wish to discount your article, a quick read through left me unimpressed and without actual case studies showing further review backing the author's statements. That being said - I'm not going to simply discount the idea that that could be true based on that alone.

I will say - I do love me some dairy. MMMMMmmmmmmm I had almost a whole wedge of cheese yesterday. It was amazing.

**Beards247** · August 23rd, 2010, 10:57 AM

Originally Posted by bzaks1424

While I do not wish to discount your article, a quick read through left me unimpressed and without actual case studies showing further review backing the author's statements. That being said - I'm not going to simply discount the idea that that could be true based on that alone.

I will say - I do love me some dairy. MMMMMmmmmmmm I had almost a whole wedge of cheese yesterday. It was amazing.

I had the same thought. I did some research, found Russell Eaton's blog and 2 books... but there are no critical reviews?!? I can't find any counterpoint - and I'd assume the Dairy Lobby would be all over this like flies on cow pad's if they felt threatened...

So, where is the counter point (every major issue has one). Now I guess I am risking hijacking my own thread : ).

**SwimSister** · August 23rd, 2010, 12:14 PM

I'm not too impressed with my link either ... it was just a quick google search to find a web site in English.

I'm not a scientist and really not into convincing anybody, I just don't get why grown men and women drink milk. If you were to drink it directly from the source, you wouldn't, would you? Yuk! Milk (and meat) is full of hormones, it just cannot be good for anyone but babies, who cannot eat real food yet. Some people call milk "liquid meat" ... but that's another story

If you're interested, just google MILK or DAIRY and CANCER, CONSTIPATION, OSTEOPOROSIS or what ever you like, and see what you get. Or look here: http://www.milksucks.com

Denmark is one of the most dairy-consuming countries. And inhabitated by a populations with one of the worlds highest presences of osteoporosis. Most Asians (still living in Asia) don't eat dairy products, and they have much less osteoporosis than Danes do.

Haven't you ever wondered why the Japanese get so old? And are so vital even at very old age? You didn't need to spend much time at the championshipsin Gothenburg to notice, how vital the old Japanese participants were. Simply amazing. The older generations in Japan eat vegetables, no dairy and very little meat and fish - the young Japanese eat more like we do, and they get the same diseases as we do. I don't think the young Japanese will get as old or as vital when aging as their ancestors. But that's pure speculation ...

As a high intake of dairy quite often correlates with high meat intake, it's apparently quite difficult to tell the difference between health issues related to dairy intake and issues related to eating meat. I believe dairy and meat are two sides of the same story. And that the safest and most healthy diet is - IMHO - veggies and fruit.

**SwimSister** · August 23rd, 2010, 12:29 PM

I know, that this thread isn't about milk (sorry) and I cannot find a direct link, but a Danish source states that The Lancet (October 14 2006) brought an article about osteoporosis and dairy intake concluding that populations with the highest intake of dairy products had the highest presence (probably not the right word, sorry again ...) of osteoporosis.

**bzaks1424** · August 23rd, 2010, 12:41 PM

I guess the only problem that I have with your links is that all of these studies are correlation studies. People have been drinking/eating milk products and meet for literally thousands of years - just the same as we have been eating (glorious) meat. These very same people are probably drinking soft drinks, eating trans fats, and possibly living a sedentary lifestyle (lack of impact on the body through activity could be said to correlate to lower bone density due to less compaction on the bones - that of course is just hearsay.)

Find me a study that shows the direct effect of proteins or specific ingredients (hormones don't count, because you can get organic or certified hormone free milk) in calcium-laden dairy products on the production of bone mass in the body and I will gladly take my giant wedge of sharp swiss cheese, my glass of milk and my [ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vermonster]Ben and Jerry's Vermonster[/ame] (1 word: Glorious) and toss them all out the window (metaphorically speaking of course) and gladly replace my dairy intake with rice, almond and soy based products.

**SwimSister** · August 23rd, 2010, 12:55 PM

OR - if you really ARE curious, you could try a few weeks without dairy. Most people I know who tried it are experiencing better digestion, fewer "aches" (head aches, joint aches etc), less mucus (no more running nose) but most of all: more energy.

And I surely agree, that milk is not the only bad thing in a typical western. Sugar, processed food and alcohol are on the black list too. Eat whole foods to get (or stay) healthy and fit.

A dedicated vegan talk: [nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5VWi6dXCT7I"]YouTube- Chocolate, Cheese, Meat, and Sugar -- Physically Addictive[/nomedia]

According to the speaker cheese is one of the most difficult dairy products to skip - due to morphine like substances in dairy, particularly in cheese.

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