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Thread: The New Approach to Meets

  1. #61
    aka Elaine-iaK & Aqua Dog
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    Re: The New Approach to Meets

    Quote Originally Posted by pwb View Post
    This is ridiculous. Is there anyone minding the store in Sarasota?

    I agree. It's time for USMS to take a serious look at this, and then post their decision here on this thread.

  2. #62
    Very Active Member Kurt Dickson's Avatar
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    Re: The New Approach to Meets

    Quote Originally Posted by ElaineK View Post

    I agree. It's time for USMS to take a serious look at this, and then post their decision here on this thread.
    Actually, past time. Don't hold your breath. I've emailed and mentioned this multiple times on various posts the last 8 months... crickets.

    I don't believe there was a single sanctioned meet or time-trial this last summer.

  3. #63
    Very Active Member Glenn's Avatar
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    Re: The New Approach to Meets

    When I looked up the two or three people in my age group listed in the TOP TEN for 2020 LCM,I saw that the meets (and there seemed to be two meets) were held in Australia in February2020, before we were really aware of COVID. So they are legitimate LCM meets.
    Glenn Gruber

  4. #64
    Very Active Member Kurt Dickson's Avatar
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    Re: The New Approach to Meets

    Quote Originally Posted by Glenn View Post
    So they are legitimate LCM meets.
    Yup. I don't think USMS sanctioned a meet though.

  5. #65
    Very Active Member Glenn's Avatar
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    Re: The New Approach to Meets

    Quote Originally Posted by Kurt Dickson View Post
    Yup. I don't think USMS sanctioned a meet though.
    Well it was an international meet. I assume it is like when I age up and swim at the Canadian Nationals in April or May in SCM. Those times count in USMS.
    Glenn Gruber

  6. #66
    Very Active Member Glenn's Avatar
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    Re: The New Approach to Meets

    Quote Originally Posted by VintageDirt View Post
    Well, at least Rick Colella’s times are still incredibly legit. 😂
    Thankfully, for now, he is not in my age group!
    Glenn Gruber

  7. #67
    Very Active Member Allen Stark's Avatar
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    Re: The New Approach to Meets

    If we have a LCM Nationals he will be.
    "To strive,to seek,to find,and not to yield" Tennyson
    Allen

  8. #68
    Very Active Member Glenn's Avatar
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    Re: The New Approach to Meets

    Quote Originally Posted by Allen Stark View Post
    If we have a LCM Nationals he will be.
    Crap...you are right Allen!
    Glenn Gruber

  9. #69
    Very Active Member Allen Stark's Avatar
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    Re: The New Approach to Meets

    Quote Originally Posted by Glenn View Post
    Crap...you are right Allen!
    If we have a SCY season it will be my last meet in this age group before he ages up
    "To strive,to seek,to find,and not to yield" Tennyson
    Allen

  10. #70
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    Re: The New Approach to Meets

    Quote Originally Posted by pwb View Post
    This is ridiculous. Is there anyone minding the store in Sarasota?
    Actually, the creation and publication of the national top 10 and All-American lists is not a National Office function. It is an annual activity that is done by volunteer top 10 recorders in each LMSC and coordinated by the Records & Tabulations Committee. My understanding is that they had no choice in whether or not to publish a top 10 or AA list this year. You can find the following passages in the rule book (emphasis mine):

    105.2.1 The USMS Top 10 Times list shall be published annually for each age division and for each gender for the events listed under article 102.5.

    105.4.1 The USMS member with the fastest listed time for an individual event for that season shall be declared the All-American in that event for the year.
    As you can see, there is no option in this language for USMS to not publish these lists. So that is the reason why they are doing it this year.

    I was lucky enough to have swum in the February senior games that were included in this year's LCM top 10, although slow enough as I was just 7 months post-rotator cuff surgery at that point. However, even if I hadn't, I still support publishing this list. Sure, a lot of people who can easily swim faster than the published times did not have a chance to do so but think about the people who made top 10 or All-American for the first time ever. Some of them may well be thrilled to have made the list, even under unusual circumstances. It's not always about you - let people enjoy their own accomplishments and move on to next year. As others have pointed out, there are lots of reasons why people can't swim certain events each year. I've heard that there isn't a single LCM pool in the entire state of Maine. Should we not publish top 10 lists for LCM because that would be discriminating against these members who don't have an easy way to compete for the list without having to spend lots of money on travel?

  11. #71
    Very Active Member Chris Stevenson's Avatar
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    Re: The New Approach to Meets

    Honestly I don't get the pushback against publishing Top 10 lists. Yes most people couldn't compete, many couldn't even do swim practice for extended periods. So how does it hurt you that a handful managed to do so, and that they will make Top 10 when normally they wouldn't? Do you think they are somehow unaware that it was easier this year?

    This is masters. There is plenty of fun to go around, no need to pee in the pool.

  12. #72
    Very Active Member Calvin S's Avatar
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    Re: The New Approach to Meets

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Stevenson View Post
    no need to pee in the pool.
    what if coach won't let me out to go to the bathroom?

    Also have to agree with your sentiment. Congrats to those lucky enough to get to swim in a meet and get on the list.

  13. #73
    "Don't float through life orca1946's Avatar
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    Re: The New Approach to Meets

    Don't pee in my pool or NO top ten for you!

  14. #74
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    Re: The New Approach to Meets

    That’s a really cogent response Chris.

  15. #75
    "Don't float through life orca1946's Avatar
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    Re: The New Approach to Meets

    With Covid still rampant, I do not see State or S C Nationals on the horizon for us.

  16. #76
    Very Active Member Chris Stevenson's Avatar
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    Re: The New Approach to Meets

    Quote Originally Posted by orca1946 View Post
    With Covid still rampant, I do not see State or S C Nationals on the horizon for us.
    I was wondering about nationals too. It is hard to see it happening, that's a whole different ballgame (lots of travel, hotel, etc) than small local meets that are often limited to a single club.

    Yes, I get that people can decide for themselves but a "national" event encourages travel from afar and the risks aren't limited to just participants. And if you limit the scope (number of participants, how far they can travel, or whatever) then I'm not sure it is properly a "nationals" event.

    Glad I don't have to make that call. :-)

  17. #77
    "Don't float through life orca1946's Avatar
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    Re: The New Approach to Meets

    Just a thought --- Move S C Nationals to the fall?

  18. #78
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    Re: The New Approach to Meets

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Stevenson View Post
    ...Yes, I get that people can decide for themselves but a "national" event encourages travel from afar and the risks aren't limited to just participants. ...
    Exactly, "freedom" does not extend to the freedom to accept risk for other people.

  19. #79
    Very Active Member pwb's Avatar
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    Re: The New Approach to Meets

    Quote Originally Posted by orca1946 View Post
    Just a thought --- Move S C Nationals to the fall?
    I doubt that would happen. I'd say let's just rally around Spire Institute for LCM Nationals. Hopefully, vaccinations will be sufficiently rolled out by that point and that also gives the organizing committee time consider COVID protocols like
    • requiring negative tests or proof of vaccination to swim
    • reduced / bare minimum of officals on deck
    • purely automatic timing / no need for timers
    • mix of outdoor and indoor seating to create room for physical distancing
    • staging areas for heats so that relatively few people are in the pool area at any time
    • possibly an extended number of days to allow for the slower running of the meet
    • ... what else?

  20. #80
    Very Active Member Redbird Alum's Avatar
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    Re: The New Approach to Meets

    Quote Originally Posted by pwb View Post
    ... consider COVID protocols like
    • requiring negative tests or proof of vaccination to swim
    We have to remember that vaccination only protects the vaccinated. It does not mean the vaccinated are not still carriers of the virus.
    Unfortunately, I think we are going to be masked/distanced through the next summer/winer season.


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