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Thread: The New Approach to Meets

  1. #1
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    The New Approach to Meets

    I’m really gratified to hear that USMS is approving sanctions beginning in November. That doesn’t mean that any and all can swim in a particular meet. Some of us “race horses” are looking for competition. In my area, a team has a sanction for “members only”...an inter squad meet. So exclusionary events are OK? I live close by, but can’t compete because I’m not affiliated with that team. How can this be a USMS event? ....I assume that records and Top Tens will be available to participants. I understand the limitations of COVID, and don’t begrudge a team from having an inter squad meet, but if it is in the name of the organization at large, to the exclusion of our members, I must question. Any thoughts?

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    Very Active Member Kurt Dickson's Avatar
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    Re: The New Approach to Meets

    I agree. I find it odd that USMS has not made any announcements about meets, top tens, All-Americans, etc. 8 months into this pandemic. It seems like every sporadic email randomly refers to stroke technique or virtual swimming and not a word about the proverbial elephant--covid and the future of meets or the conditions that need to be met to return to competition. Sanctioning private time trials is BS. I wish whomever is responsible would just say 2020 and 2021 is cancelled and put me out of my misery.

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    Re: The New Approach to Meets

    It could be a sort of “dry run” for future meets, given the many Covid restrictions. I think it’s reasonable to limit the number of participants, but unreasonable to limit who those participants are. Giving the benefit of the doubt.

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    Very Active Member JPEnge's Avatar
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    Re: The New Approach to Meets

    I don't see anything wrong with intrasquads, especially during pandemic time. That's how many USA-S teams have been having competitions recently. I mean, really, a sanctioned intrasquad meet is nothing more than a team lactate set with a USMS sanction...
    400 IMer/200 backstroker in another life, now sprinter/breaststroker... Yeah, I don't know how that happened either!

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    Very Active Member pwb's Avatar
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    Re: The New Approach to Meets

    Quote Originally Posted by swoomer View Post
    I’m really gratified to hear that USMS is approving sanctions beginning in November...
    Where was that communicated?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kurt Dickson View Post
    I agree. I find it odd that USMS has not made any announcements about meets, top tens, All-Americans, etc. 8 months into this pandemic. It seems like every sporadic email randomly refers to stroke technique or virtual swimming and not a word about ...
    ... what their most committed members care about, COMPETITION

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    Very Active Member JPEnge's Avatar
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    Re: The New Approach to Meets

    Quote Originally Posted by pwb View Post
    Where was that communicated?
    This was in an email they sent last Thursday:
    https://www.usms.org/-/media/usms/pd...ompetition.pdf
    400 IMer/200 backstroker in another life, now sprinter/breaststroker... Yeah, I don't know how that happened either!

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    Very Active Member Calvin S's Avatar
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    Re: The New Approach to Meets

    Weird. I did not get that email. For me personally, I rarely go to USMS sanctioned events anyways. I tend to swim at USA-S meets and then submit my times for USMS. I was lucky a SCY meet was offered in mid August, so I got at least one swim in, but since then, there has been nothing scheduled.

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    Very Active Member pwb's Avatar
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    Re: The New Approach to Meets

    Quote Originally Posted by Calvin S View Post
    Weird. I did not get that email.
    Me neither. If only USMS had like ... a place where they could post information ... maybe like a public commons where members could discuss things, share ideas, bandy about thoughts about how to make the organization better. It would be so great if USMS had some kind of forum for multi-lateral and multi-layered communication and debate ...

    Signed,

    Visionary for what USMS could become

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    Very Active Member Calvin S's Avatar
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    Re: The New Approach to Meets

    Quote Originally Posted by pwb View Post
    Me neither. If only USMS had like ... a place where they could post information ... maybe like a public commons where members could discuss things, share ideas, bandy about thoughts about how to make the organization better. It would be so great if USMS had some kind of forum for multi-lateral and multi-layered communication and debate ...

    Signed,

    Visionary for what USMS could become

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    Very Active Member JPEnge's Avatar
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    Re: The New Approach to Meets

    Our usual USMS SCM winter meet usually has less than 50 people, so I wonder if we will try to have it at some point... Though pretty much all the pools that can do SCM around here are owned by school districts and are mostly not allowing outside renters...
    400 IMer/200 backstroker in another life, now sprinter/breaststroker... Yeah, I don't know how that happened either!

  11. #11
    Very Active Member Allen Stark's Avatar
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    Re: The New Approach to Meets

    Quote Originally Posted by pwb View Post
    Me neither. If only USMS had like ... a place where they could post information ... maybe like a public commons where members could discuss things, share ideas, bandy about thoughts about how to make the organization better. It would be so great if USMS had some kind of forum for multi-lateral and multi-layered communication and debate ...

    Signed,

    Visionary for what USMS could become
    That would be really nice if it existed, Oh wait it does, or could or just ARRRRRRRRGGGG. I'd like to know who the email was sent to, it wasn't to me.
    As to the sanctioned meets, I think it is great for the few who can have them. If the times count for event ranking and on your "My USMS" results I'm fine with that. If they count for TT and AA, not so much. I think TT should be a real accomplishment, not that you were one of the 5 swimmers that had a meet. I have less of a problem accepting times for TT in SCY as that season has several more months to run and we will hopefully have some real meets by then. If they have sanctioned meets in Nov. or Dec. in SCM that count for TT, that seems really unfair to me.
    "To strive,to seek,to find,and not to yield" Tennyson
    Allen

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    Very Active Member JPEnge's Avatar
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    Re: The New Approach to Meets

    Quote Originally Posted by Allen Stark View Post
    I'd like to know who the email was sent to, it wasn't to me.
    Just looked at the bottom of the email:
    "This email was sent to all LMSC- and national-level volunteers and contacts for sanctioned events in 2019 and 2020."

    I'm the Ozark LMSC Top Ten Coordinator, so I guess that's why I got it.
    400 IMer/200 backstroker in another life, now sprinter/breaststroker... Yeah, I don't know how that happened either!

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    Very Active Member Calvin S's Avatar
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    Re: The New Approach to Meets

    Shouldn't anyone who wishes to compete at a USMS meet, at the very least, be a "contact for sanctioned events?"

    Like I get it that if you hold a position within an LMSC you got the email, but seems like the kind of information anyone looking to attend a sanctioned would want to know about!

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    Re: The New Approach to Meets

    Quote Originally Posted by Calvin S View Post
    Shouldn't anyone who wishes to compete at a USMS meet, at the very least, be a "contact for sanctioned events?"

    Like I get it that if you hold a position within an LMSC you got the email, but seems like the kind of information anyone looking to attend a sanctioned would want to know about!

    the information
    • Phase 1 Return to Competition Guidance was available by Oct 9 within the "Covid-19 Resource Page" from the USMS start page when first logging into the site. I personally feel that starting with small meets is the way to more safely get back into competition, even if it excludes a large portion of us who look forward to competition once again. i can certainly understand the frustration many of us are experiencing but it will not last forever.
    As God is my witness, I thought turkeys could fly.

  15. #15
    Very Active Member Allen Stark's Avatar
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    Re: The New Approach to Meets

    Quote Originally Posted by jackback View Post
    the information
    • Phase 1 Return to Competition Guidance was available by Oct 9 within the "Covid-19 Resource Page" from the USMS start page when first logging into the site. I personally feel that starting with small meets is the way to more safely get back into competition, even if it excludes a large portion of us who look forward to competition once again. i can certainly understand the frustration many of us are experiencing but it will not last forever.
    Thank you. That was useful. That resource is now avilable at the bottom scroll down area(not far from where they hid the forums link.) I did not realize how often that was updated or I would have followed it more closely. Maybe someone could post on the forums when there is a new update.
    "To strive,to seek,to find,and not to yield" Tennyson
    Allen

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    Re: The New Approach to Meets

    Getting back to the main question. I do not think an inter squad scrimmage closed to other USMS members should count as a Meet, or Top Ten times.

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    Very Active Member JPEnge's Avatar
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    Re: The New Approach to Meets

    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Kornblatt View Post
    Getting back to the main question. I do not think an inter squad scrimmage closed to other USMS members should count as a Meet, or Top Ten times.
    Why?

    If every requirement for sanctioning a meet is followed, why shouldn't it count?

    If a team hosts an open meet and nobody signs up but one club, should that not count?
    400 IMer/200 backstroker in another life, now sprinter/breaststroker... Yeah, I don't know how that happened either!

  18. #18
    Very Active Member Kurt Dickson's Avatar
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    Re: The New Approach to Meets

    Quote Originally Posted by JPEnge View Post
    Why?

    If every requirement for sanctioning a meet is followed, why shouldn't it count?

    If a team hosts an open meet and nobody signs up but one club, should that not count?
    Key word is "open". I think the argument is against closed time trials to count for top ten...you know for us team-less reindeer who would not be invited to play reindeer games.

  19. #19
    Very Active Member JPEnge's Avatar
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    Re: The New Approach to Meets

    Quote Originally Posted by Kurt Dickson View Post
    Key word is "open". I think the argument is against closed time trials to count for top ten...you know for us team-less reindeer who would not be invited to play reindeer games.
    But again, why should they not count? I haven't heard a reason from anybody besides that you personally do not get to participate.
    400 IMer/200 backstroker in another life, now sprinter/breaststroker... Yeah, I don't know how that happened either!

  20. #20
    Very Active Member Kurt Dickson's Avatar
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    Re: The New Approach to Meets

    Quote Originally Posted by JPEnge View Post
    But again, why should they not count? I haven't heard a reason from anybody besides that you personally do not get to participate.
    Ok let's get literal. Any 50-54 top ten without Kurt Dickson in it is illegitimate.

    I suppose nobody really cares though.

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