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Thread: The Great Barrington Declaration

  1. #1
    Paint test area ahead Michael Heather's Avatar
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    The Great Barrington Declaration

    Anyone have something to say about this? It should be thought provoking.

    https://gbdeclaration.org
    The opinions expressed in the above post are mine, not those of U.S. Masters Swimming. But maybe they should be.

  2. #2
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    Re: The Great Barrington Declaration

    A lot has changed since October 4th. Our (7 day average) infection rate is almost 4 times higher than it was then. Our trailing indicator, deaths, is rising drastically, but still 50% higher. And on edit, we just had the highest single day fatality number since May 7th. The places that are hit the hardest are places that basically have been ignoring the advice of experts, and acting like there is nothing going on.

    Statistically speaking, deaths are up well over expected in many categories, such as cardiovascular, pneumonia, etc. which tell sus that COVID deaths are under counted. One thing that is not up a statistically measurable amount is suicides. That in and of itself pretty much nullifies the point of this petition.

    Sweden has grave reservations about their prior approach, because the impact of COVID on Sweden is much, much higher than its peer countries. And their economic and social situation is not measurably less impacted by countries that did lock down and take it seriously.

    All that said, if there were something to this, you'd really need a messenger who hasn't repeatedly shown himself to be woefully incapable of approaching a pandemic that has killed 5 times more Americans than the decades long Vietnam war.

    You want to talk about who is feeling stressed by this? How about the healthcare workers dealing with it. They are quitting in record numbers from the stress of having to treat the obscene numbers. Just one article about it, https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/15/h...-quitting.html

    Let's not forget that hospital beds are a finite resource.
    My wife is a neonatologist. The NICU is at 130% of capacity. Not due to COVID (though one baby has it, and a 29 y/o mother of a NICU child died from it earlier this year). It is not abnormal to have a lot of babies, they have equipment and abilities to exceed 100% capacity (an example is that there may be babies in incubators in a shared nursery, rather than individual rooms - I don't know details)

    But a major factor is resource allocation. As hospitals are filling up, they are moving things around, taking away beds from some places to free up beds for COVID patients. In 67Queen's case, UT moved some PICU beds into the NICU to free up space for the hospital to take on the influx of COVID patients. You multiply that by all of the smaller hospitals in the region (e.g. perhaps some are sending NICU patients to UT?), and it is snowballing. Out west, we've already heard of some field hospitals being set up.
    Last edited by 67King; November 18th, 2020 at 10:54 PM. Reason: Updated stats

  3. #3
    Paint test area ahead Michael Heather's Avatar
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    Re: The Great Barrington Declaration

    https://youtu.be/a0TZBRHu2d4

    Covers most of what I have to say.

    I have zero sympathy for hospitals, the first month of this circus was dedicated entirely to helping them cope with the masses of sick and dying people that somehow did not appear. If they did not prepare, it is not my concern. Beds are absolutely not a finite resource, places to put them are readily available, if necessary. NYC had thousands. As usual, most of your arguments are specious, overstated and prey on emotion rather than play to reason. Ad hominem insults only further erode any kind of impact your point may have.
    The opinions expressed in the above post are mine, not those of U.S. Masters Swimming. But maybe they should be.

  4. #4
    Very Active Member JPEnge's Avatar
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    Re: The Great Barrington Declaration

    Stop trolling.
    400 IMer/200 backstroker in another life, now sprinter/breaststroker... Yeah, I don't know how that happened either!

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    Very Active Member Calvin S's Avatar
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    Re: The Great Barrington Declaration

    Quote Originally Posted by JPEnge View Post
    Stop trolling.
    /10 chars

  6. #6
    aka Elaine-iaK & Aqua Dog ElaineK's Avatar
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    Re: The Great Barrington Declaration

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Heather View Post
    https://youtu.be/a0TZBRHu2d4

    Beds are absolutely not a finite resource, places to put them are readily available, if necessary. NYC had thousands.
    Who is going to treat the patients IN those beds? Qualified doctors and nurses ARE a finite resource.

    Rob Copeland, shutting down this thread (especially Michael Heather), would do us all a favor!


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    Re: The Great Barrington Declaration

    Quote Originally Posted by ElaineK View Post
    Who is going to treat the patients IN those beds? Qualified doctors and nurses ARE a finite resource.

    Rob Copeland, shutting down this thread (especially Michael Heather), would do us all a favor!


    Agree. Feel sorry for giving the benefit of the doubt as to sincerity, and responding.

  8. #8
    Moderator Rob Copeland's Avatar
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    Re: The Great Barrington Declaration

    Quote Originally Posted by ElaineK View Post
    Rob Copeland, shutting down this thread would do us all a favor!
    I typically won't close a thread just because the opinions expressed by forum members may differ. However, I will close threads (and start suspending forum privileges) for personal attacks and other violations of forum rules https://forums.usms.org/faq.php?faq=rulestitle
    The opinions expressed in the above post are mine and not those of U.S. Masters Swimming.

  9. #9
    Very Active Member JPEnge's Avatar
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    Re: The Great Barrington Declaration

    Quote Originally Posted by Rob Copeland View Post
    I typically won't close a thread just because the opinions expressed by forum members may differ. However, I will close threads (and start suspending forum privileges) for personal attacks and other violations of forum rules https://forums.usms.org/faq.php?faq=rulestitle
    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Heather View Post
    https://youtu.be/a0TZBRHu2d4

    Covers most of what I have to say.

    I have zero sympathy for hospitals, the first month of this circus was dedicated entirely to helping them cope with the masses of sick and dying people that somehow did not appear. If they did not prepare, it is not my concern. Beds are absolutely not a finite resource, places to put them are readily available, if necessary. NYC had thousands. As usual, most of your arguments are specious, overstated and prey on emotion rather than play to reason. Ad hominem insults only further erode any kind of impact your point may have.
    I mean, c'mon. The dude's just here to try to provoke people to get angry at him.
    400 IMer/200 backstroker in another life, now sprinter/breaststroker... Yeah, I don't know how that happened either!

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    Re: The Great Barrington Declaration

    Quote Originally Posted by Rob Copeland View Post
    I typically won't close a thread just because the opinions expressed by forum members may differ. However, I will close threads (and start suspending forum privileges) for personal attacks and other violations of forum rules https://forums.usms.org/faq.php?faq=rulestitle
    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Heather View Post
    As usual, most of your arguments are specious, overstated and prey on emotion rather than play to reason. Ad hominem insults only further erode any kind of impact your point may have.
    Go back and read my reply to him, again. Would have made Joe Friday proud - just the facts. The one thing that was not a stated fact, but rather an opinion was that the messenger did not have credibility with those of us on the forums.......and I would say that the responses here to his post pretty much show that my statement that he lacks credibility on this subject is pretty well supported.

    Now read his reply to me (and try to not laugh at the irony). And consider the history in prior threads. My feelings are not so easily hurt as to complain about it, but if personal attacks are a reason to close a thread, I would state that history shows that any dissenting views provided will continue to be met by similar types of responses.

    But if we want to give every shred of benefit of doubt, then consider that a platform is given to someone who is sewing lies (hospital beds are an infinite resource?) and promoting a position that we know with complete and total certainty is a contributing factor to the deaths of hundreds of thousands of people. Is that really what we want the off-topic forum to be used for?

  11. #11
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    Re: The Great Barrington Declaration

    his point is being a ... just don't feed him
    As God is my witness, I thought turkeys could fly.

  12. #12
    aka Elaine-iaK & Aqua Dog ElaineK's Avatar
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    Re: The Great Barrington Declaration

    Quote Originally Posted by 67King View Post
    But if we want to give every shred of benefit of doubt, then consider that a platform is given to someone who is sewing lies (hospital beds are an infinite resource?) and promoting a position that we know with complete and total certainty is a contributing factor to the deaths of hundreds of thousands of people. Is that really what we want the off-topic forum to be used for?

    A good comparison would be Twitter flagging all of Trump's inaccurate posts. And, to think Michael Heather served on the USMS board of directors on this committee:
    Sports Medicine and Science Committee Ex-Officio 2006 - 2009
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  13. #13
    Paint test area ahead Michael Heather's Avatar
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    Re: The Great Barrington Declaration

    Apparently nobody has anything meaningful to say about the OP, but as usual, have plenty to say about others. Just the clique that makes the forums a toxic and counterproductive environment for USMS.
    The opinions expressed in the above post are mine, not those of U.S. Masters Swimming. But maybe they should be.

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